First run… Nothing happened til 208 degrees?

[Fadiver]

Hi all, I just tried to run my very first wash. I started to distill three gallons of fermented brown sugar (as this was my first time, I was not concerned with quality… Just wanted to make sure everything worked) in a clawhammer five gallon still. I read that the methanol should begin to boil out at about 140 degrees and ethanol would begin at 178. However, nothing happened until the temp (using a digital probe thermometer inside the still) hit 208. I tossed the first three ounces anyway and continued to collect the rest as the temp stayed at 212, but I am not confident this worked at all. Why would no liquid condense at 140 or even 170. Why did no liquid drip out until the temp reached 208? That’s not right, right? Thanks!

[BeverageCommander]

This can be caused by a few things:

First: Do you know what the starting ABV of the wash was?

Second: Where exactly is the temp probe you are using located? In my setup my boiler temp will read close to 200 before I start producing- but at the same time my column temperature will be closer to 180.

Also elevation plays a factor as well- what elevation are you at?

[Fadiver]

Thanks for your help… I think the ABV was about 15% based on the gravity readings. The temp probe was dipped into the mash (and I’m about at sea level) A few other thoughts come to mind, though – the still is designed for about five gallons but I only boiled three. Could that mean too much “space” which would not create enough pressure? Also, after the water began to boil, it was clear that steam was coming out of a poorly soldered seam below the column, I guess at first I assumed it wouldn’t matter since the methanol, ethanol, water, etc, would all float to the top, past the leaky seam. However, maybe at between 140 and 208 it all just escaped and I couldn’t see it. Finally, although I read that the tails were dangerous since they contained methanol, I also just read that sugar shine (my recipe was only brown sugar and ale yeast) shouldn’t contain methanol anyway. So maybe there was nothing in the mash that would boil out before 208 anyway? Again, thanks for any assistance; I’m finding this a very fascinating hobby,

[MinnesotaShine]

Fadiver. It has nothing to do with space or pressure, or leaky joints. It has entirely everything to do with math. Pure (key word) ethanol boils at 173.1F. If you had 100% pure ethanol in your still, it would in fact start boiling at 173.1F. However, you do not. You said you started with 15% – which means you have 85% water. Water boils at 212F. The more water you have in your still, the closer you will be to a 212F boil. The more ethanol, the closer to a 173 boil.

[Fadiver]

Yes, but according to other sources I’ve read, methanol and ethanol should have started to boil out at earlier temperatures, regardless of how much is in the fermented wort, and then when the “dripping” stops, you know you’ve extracted all of it. If what MinnesotaShine says is correct, how would you ever know what you’ve produced? or are you saying that 208-212 is ethanol and 212 starts to produce water?

[MinnesotaShine]

Hey Fadiver – couple of things here. Methanol will boil earlier (148F) than ethanol (173F) which will boil earlier than water (212F). However, you don’t have pure methanol or pure ethanol in your still. You have primarily water (in your previous example you had 85% water) and 15% of it being alcohols. The distillation process is all about separating the alcohols from the water. While the methanols and ethanol (and acetone, ethyl, propanol and others) all organize in the boiler during heat up, water molecules do bond to all of it, therefore raising the temperature needed to vaporize. Here is a chart to help you understand how the starting ABV% will directly correlate to the boiling temp http://www.clawhammersupply.com/blogs/moonshine-still-blog/12243869-making-moonshine-still-temperature But you are correct, the first things that start to boil off will always be acetone, then methanol and ethyl acetone. Then comes ethanol. How would you ever know what you’ve produced? Once you get used to it you’ll get a feel for the look, smell and taste. For now, I would suggest using math. First, make sure you know how much alcohol is going into your boiler (volume * ABV%). Then start distilling… Collect some distillate, measure it (volume), then put a hydrometer on it to measure the alcohol. You can then keep track of how much alcohol you are producing. You will have to slowly keep turning up your heat throughout your run – again, see chart. Hope that helps!

[Inetryconydot]

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